Scale of Battles

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Scale of Battles

Post  Nikephoros on Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:52 pm

So, before we can actually decide what kind of troops we are going to deploy, we must know: What will be scale of the battles?

A very few players fighting each other?
Hundreds of bots commanded by players?

Something in the middle?

Personally, i'd love to see some sort of 1st(3rd) person total war, with the players acting as heroes and generals.
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Re: Scale of Battles

Post  Elric de Melnibone on Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:58 pm

Aye, I'd love few players with hundreds of AI myself.

Like Nikephoros said, Total War, just on a slightly smaller scale, and the players actually being in the fight.
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Re: Scale of Battles

Post  Arch3r on Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:07 pm

I support that idea, player will be able to command AI's but the scale has yet to be decided.
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Re: Scale of Battles

Post  SCGavin on Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:15 pm

I support the idea, if the bots are more intelligent than now and if there wont be a terrible lag because of millions of bots.
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Re: Scale of Battles

Post  Nikephoros on Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:43 pm

Well, the players will command the battalions, so it will be them to provide the strategy. The only problem, as said, is the lag.
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Re: Scale of Battles

Post  SCGavin on Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:27 pm

Nikephoros wrote:Well, the players will command the battalions, so it will be them to provide the strategy.

But the bots must manage not to run into walls all the time. Laughing
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Re: Scale of Battles

Post  HULKSMASH on Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:50 pm

I amagine the size of an army for 1 player (players will be able to combine armies) will be about 25.
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Re: Scale of Battles

Post  Tibertus on Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:32 pm

Shit, I won't be able to play at all if there's more than 5 bots per player. Hell, that might even be too much for my poor laptop. Remember limitations guys, 25 bots per player is a hell of a lot and not even supportable I think.
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Re: Scale of Battles

Post  Nikephoros on Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:16 am

Well, i think 22nd or someone else once made a test to check the bot limit. Does anybody know anything about it?

Anyway, 25 bots per player could work out very fine, i think.
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Re: Scale of Battles

Post  Elric de Melnibone on Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:51 am

No offence Tibertus, but most people play with Armies of 100-200 bots in M&B singleplayer.
If anything, bots should work -better- in Warband, not worse. We will just have to see how it will work out.
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Re: Scale of Battles

Post  HULKSMASH on Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:52 am

Remember, 25 bots would be for quite a wealthy lord.
Most average would have 15-20, and they will be by themselves, unless on campaign.
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Re: Scale of Battles

Post  Tibertus on Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:51 pm

Don't talk down to me. Are you assuming that only 4 players would play per side? I easily see players per side getting MUCH higher than that. I don't think anyone's computer and internet connection would handle a battle with 15 players per side and 375 bots per side. Get real. Also, I really haven't seen much optimization the last few updates. I'm really doubting large amounts of bots will work as well as it did in the original M&B.
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Re: Scale of Battles

Post  Elric de Melnibone on Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:01 am

Get real?
Are you resorting to things like that already?
And you tell me to not talk down to you? I'll just ignore it.

Now, for the topic.
I can't find my mention of battles with 375 per side -anywhere-.
Taleworlds is actively working on the singleplayer beta as well, and therefore I believe in improvements concerning the AI. Mount&Blade was never a very demanding game. I believe that that numbers that I actually suggested, not some numbers put in my mouth, could work quite well.

100 Bots per faction, split up between the players? Why wouldn't it work?
You wouldn't even have to split the troops up between every player, since I doubt everybody is interested in leading a bunch of AI. That would be 200 bots at max for each faction, plus the players, and don't forget, most battles wouldn't be with every soldier a faction is able to field. Most battles will most likely be skirmishes or battles on a smaller scale, reducing the amount of bots required and suitable. This means that in most games, it would most likely be 50 bots on each side, or 30, or 70. And that's something most players could handle. If we used a 100 bots per faction for some grand showdowns, I doubt anyone would complain, as long as we don't do it all the time. It's the year 2010 after all, and Warband isn't some kind of new Crysis.
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Re: Scale of Battles

Post  HULKSMASH on Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:48 am

Yes I agree with Elric.
Ahd for big battles, just turn your graphics down abit.
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Re: Scale of Battles

Post  Tibertus on Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:08 am

Elric, you very much said 25 bots per player. Which would mean 375 bots per side if one side had just 15 players. If you're going to argue against things you've already said, I'll ignore this, but right now, it just seems like you haven't got a clue about what you're talking about. You guys are wanting more than what the game can dish out and are going to ruin something good for people with mediocre computers in the process.
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Re: Scale of Battles

Post  Elric de Melnibone on Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:28 am

Elric, you very much said 25 bots per player. Which would mean 375 bots per side if one side had just 15 players. If you're going to argue against things you've already said, I'll ignore this, but right now, it just seems like you haven't got a clue about what you're talking about. You guys are wanting more than what the game can dish out and are going to ruin something good for people with mediocre computers in the process.

No I haven't.
You're really starting to make a fool of yourself.

Quote it or bugger off. Neutral
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Re: Scale of Battles

Post  Tibertus on Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:12 am

Ok, I apologize, you didn't actually say that yourself. However, in my first couple of posts, you assumed I was addressing you, which I wasn't, and I get all you new kids confused with each other. Finally, you're in agreement with the two who did say there should be 25 per players, who are the people I was originally addressing.
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Re: Scale of Battles

Post  Elric de Melnibone on Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:32 am

Tibertus wrote:And I get all you new kids confused with each other

Keep on apologising matey, you're starting to get really good at making friends.
Don't talk down to others if you don't wish to be talked down to yourself.

I think I'm smelling something.
Someone that is sitting so high on his horse, he can't even dismount to take a crap, due to the risk of breaking a leg when jumping down from such dangerous heights.

Can you smell it as well?
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Re: Scale of Battles

Post  Tibertus on Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:53 pm

Lol, the act of you trying to act witty is humorous.
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Re: Scale of Battles

Post  HULKSMASH on Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:21 pm

Guys, cut the shit.
Handle it by PM.
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Re: Scale of Battles

Post  Urist on Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:26 am

I think the bots are better than most players at the moment.

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Re: Scale of Battles

Post  Nord Champion on Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:41 am

Yes, a battle with 750 bots plus 30 players is A LOT. But I was thinking, maybe somehow the bots can be limited, like on the original. Like some are reinforcements, almost like for team death match or death match, they have the bots re-spawn. But put a limit on it. Instead of the numbers being unlimited, make it 375 per team, which is the armies on each side. That way only a certain amount is on the field at a time, and your whole army is used.

Edit: Sorry if this idea was already purposed, I thought that the other pages were filled with the argument...

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Re: Scale of Battles

Post  Tercero on Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:51 am

I'd prefer not to have bots but only players... but whatever...

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Re: Scale of Battles

Post  Hethwill on Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:21 am

Greetings.

My POV on this subject is simple as it can get.

Every clan starts with the same amount of "land". Each clan may have a king plus 2 nobles. As more "land" is aggregated ( or lost ) the amount of nobles change.

Clear until now ? Good.

Only Nobles may have the "bots", which simulate the noble's retinue. Then you have all the other human players, which have their importance but are belonging to a noble's household.

Not a massive use of bots, but still they are present and can, in battle, be placed under specific command if so a General wishes it so, amount of 25 is balanced for a retinue. I would say 50 for the King and 25 for the nobles, assuming allowance may be paid.

Less Total War though.

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Re: Scale of Battles

Post  Arch3r on Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:42 am

A max of 100v100 would be ok to start with, which could be decreased or increased based one server and client performance. Also a new gamemode will have to be constructed for Reinforcement wave based respawning (like in Native)
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