Production system, trade and resources

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Production system, trade and resources

Post  Nikephoros on Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:41 pm

The idea is very simple:

every town or village in some kind of hex produces a kind of resource every turn, and gives a determined amount of money.

For example:

- mountainous terrain should produce gem
- plains should produce textiles
- snow plains should produce fur
- steppe will produce...something.


This resources will be traded at a fixed exchange rate for gold in the faction's cities where they are produced,

AND\OR

Can be traded for MUCH MORE money in certain strategic "exchange points" allocated in the border of the map. As if you were trading with a far away country.

Of course, and that's the point, the exchange point for furs would be on the opposite side of the map from the snow hexes.

This should lead to "trade policies" between clans, and each clan's target would be to acquire the most favorable trade route to enrich itself.

The Camels of Rabat (CoR) will be located in a silk-producing area, and own the gem exchange point. They are bordering with the Amazing Batmen (AB) and the Zorro Has Gasoline (ZHG). They both border with Imaginative Groundkeepers (IG), who have the exchange point for silk, and produce gems.

Now, the whole game will focus on trade wars and agreements between the clans to get the best profit from they can.

And i think this is just great.

Opinions?


Last edited by Nikephoros on Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:49 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Finally proposed a system.)
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Re: Production system, trade and resources

Post  Nikephoros on Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:20 am

Updated.
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Re: Production system, trade and resources

Post  HULKSMASH on Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:08 am

Great, but I think we could make it more complex.
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Re: Production system, trade and resources

Post  Nikephoros on Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:27 am

The best part of it, i think, it's its simplicity, and the "diplomatic potential" of the system.

But how would you make it more complex?
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Re: Production system, trade and resources

Post  Arch3r on Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:34 am

I think we could decide for some 'resources', maybe divided in basic and advanced.
Basic would be resources needed to construct buildings and buy troops. These would include:
Gold
Wood
Stone
Food
(Horses?)

Advanced could be the trading wares, used to generate basic resources and maybe to buy upgrades. Think of them as local wares you can trade with other kingdoms and foreign far countries, who in return give you gold, or upgrade/research. These would include:
Silk
Gems
Fur
Wool
Keratin (horns of wildlife)

The reason for other kingdoms to buy these advanced resources is because they don't generate them themselves and they can use it for research/upgrades. Also sometimes the selling faction doesn't have a good sell spot ("exchange spot" as Nike calls it), but the buying faction does. Than the profits could be shared.
This would allow for a lot of diplomacy and reasons for war (getting that area you desperately want for your research or income).

I really like your idea, and I hope we can expand it a bit.
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Re: Production system, trade and resources

Post  Nikephoros on Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:47 am

The basic idea of the system is "you have something i don't have, and i have something you don't have. I want to gain the most from my lands, we can trade, or i can take your lands to profit even more".

Advanced resources are simply "money undercover", that must be "discovered" in the most profitable possible way for each kingdom.

But also linking it to some upgrades (for example, you'll need some silk, gems and other valuables to upgrade a castle to a palace).
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Re: Production system, trade and resources

Post  Arch3r on Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:02 pm

A few other 'advanced resources' (or luxury wares) I can think of (stealing them from Stronghold Kingdoms): Furniture, Venison, Salt, Wine and Metal wares.
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Re: Production system, trade and resources

Post  HULKSMASH on Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:08 pm

Sounds good
king
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Re: Production system, trade and resources

Post  Tibertus on Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:09 pm

I don't like resources necessary to produce troops being limited to only certain factions. It produces an arbitrary monopoly on military power. There has to be a way to acquire all military resources without trade.
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Re: Production system, trade and resources

Post  Nikephoros on Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:22 pm

Tibertus wrote:I don't like resources necessary to produce troops being limited to only certain factions. It produces an arbitrary monopoly on military power. There has to be a way to acquire all military resources without trade.

Basic resources needed to recruit troops will be available for everyone, of course.
But some territories (i.e. Steppes) will produce more of a certain kind, while lacking in the production of, for example, gold.
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Re: Production system, trade and resources

Post  Arch3r on Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:38 pm

Yes all factions will have access to basic resources, while advanced resources are more scarce.

Also about that image Nike, how about Pelts for snow territories.
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Re: Production system, trade and resources

Post  Tibertus on Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:40 pm

Ok...

BTW, I don't see iron in your list.
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Re: Production system, trade and resources

Post  Nikephoros on Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:12 pm

Well, consider this is a first draft, just to "think the system".

Nothing is written in the stone, yet.
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Re: Production system, trade and resources

Post  Arch3r on Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:21 am

Ah yep, Iron good one ;P.
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Re: Production system, trade and resources

Post  Nikephoros on Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:24 am

All this made me understood we should keep it as simple as possible.
Too many variables can indeed ruin the game, in my opinion.

So:

- a limited number of AR (we have 5-6 kinds of hexes, we should have 7-8 AR). Not every hex will produce some an AR, there should be mines or something similar.

- troops recruited only with money+iron+horses.

- Wood used to build structures.

- We can cancel the "stone" resource, in my opinion.

- Weath to feed armies?
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Re: Production system, trade and resources

Post  Tibertus on Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:14 pm

Nikephoros wrote:All this made me understood we should keep it as simple as possible.
Too many variables can indeed ruin the game, in my opinion.

So:

- a limited number of AR (we have 5-6 kinds of hexes, we should have 7-8 AR). Not every hex will produce some an AR, there should be mines or something similar.

- troops recruited only with money+iron+horses.

- Wood used to build structures.

- We can cancel the "stone" resource, in my opinion.

- Weath to feed armies?

Medieval wealth was measured in grain production and cattle, not gold. Wood was abundant, while good stone was not.
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Re: Production system, trade and resources

Post  Arch3r on Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:53 pm

Instead of resources we could call it resource production. If anyone of you ever played Imperium Romanus, it was used there. If you built a woodmill, you would gain +2 wood(production) and that would be needed for, let's say, fletchers that require 1 woodproduction to function. Every building will require the woodproduction upkeep. So instead of saying: I got 200 wood! It will be: I produce 200 wood! This would be better for troops, as you cannot have more troops than food production. If you have enough buildings that make 200 food production, but you also have lots of troops, your resulting foodproduction is zero.

It's a bit hard to explain, but easy once you understand what I mean.
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Re: Production system, trade and resources

Post  Tibertus on Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:40 pm

I know exactly what you're talking about, and I like it a lot more than a stockpile system. Maybe we could make it so surplus production can either be turned into gold at your local market, at a bit of a loss, or traded for the surplus production of another faction directly. You can promote trade this way.
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Re: Production system, trade and resources

Post  SCGavin on Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:34 pm

Sounds good, I think.
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Re: Production system, trade and resources

Post  Nikephoros on Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:18 am

My idea of army upkeep was of a more "strategic" vision.

You need to, to say, produce 1 food for any soldier, and we all agree.

But as i already proposed in the TW boards, we can also add "food routes". This way factions will need to think twice before making a "russian campaign", relying on sheer military and player power. You will need to have a safe food route, as your army will suffer penalties from starvation. A quick enemy cavalry force could stop those routes, thus interrupting the invader's effectiveness.

It may be quite easy to make, and, as well, add lots of depth.

By the way, if you wish to measure your wealth in cattle, wood, land or money, it's not really important. THe important thing is that you ARE wealthy, somehow. If you have, to say, a thousand heads of cattle, worth the equipment of one hundred soldiers, and you have one hundred denars worth the equipment of one hundred soldiers, what's the difference?

Money is a good way to keep the system clean and simple, and enable the clans to think more "strategically" about the trade routes, upkeep routes and international politics.
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Re: Production system, trade and resources

Post  Plazek on Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:41 am

I do not think there is much use in wool, gems and other such "trade goods".

I mean what will we actually do with them? Trade them?

Why?!
We can't make weapons out of wool, or shields out of gems. They will have zero value.
Besides each resource type we keep as individual will have to be tracked individually in both quantity and production. This will add a lot of work for as far as I can see very little gain.

IMO we should keep only the most essential resources individualised.

Metal
Wood
Stone
Leather
Cloth
Food
Horses
Gold

Alone they are a lot and they will all have value because they can all be used directly. Things such as silk, wine or whatever should rather than be a good of their own be a resource that turns into gold when you build the correct building on it.


edit

@ Arch3rs Imperium Romanum whatever idea, I am not sold. If we cannot store we cannot trade easily. Stockpiling is also a valid strategy and one we would miss out on with a system like that.

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Re: Production system, trade and resources

Post  CFR on Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:33 am

I will continue to let you debate this idea, but plazek I think leather should be pelts, as Pelts become furs and leathers and a major trade item for us would be pelts for furs.

But I agree with your catagorys and stockpiling is required as the system will allow you to stockpile and trade resources and also spent them to create/ get new buildings or items.

All that matters is ya tell me once you have decided Wink
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Re: Production system, trade and resources

Post  Arch3r on Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:12 pm

Plazek, gems have value in reallife. No they have no use in warfare, but this is not all about warfare, economy is just as important.
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Re: Production system, trade and resources

Post  Plazek on Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:30 pm

So how are we going to simulate the demand for luxury goods?

Will we have a simulated populace with morale that you must keep happy to take taxes/recruit soldiers/avoid revolts etc(like in Civ).

Will we be able to give our soldiers and horses pretty jewelry?

Will we be able to throw them off the battlements at attackers during a siege?


I know that jewles and silk and whatever trade good you might imagine have value in real life, this is not real life it is a game. If you can get jems and other luxuries to trade with that sounds all well and good but why will we trade them? What value will they have and what will you be able to do with them.

Of course you could just set up a fake economy that responds to supply and demand and prices that vary throughout the map but this seems a bit superfluous to trading with things that really do have value. Why bother when we will already have a good trading economy for useful goods.

Unlike the fake economy this one will actually have value because the things being traded have value. The "luxury good" economy to me seems like a lot of work for a few gold coins. Whereas with the "real good" economy the prices will set themselves and it will manage itself with real supply and demand.

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