Instead of 4 weapon types, how about voting?

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Re: Instead of 4 weapon types, how about voting?

Post  Arch3r on Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:09 am

4 itemTYPES, so you can still have 3 different one-handed swords (rapiers) as they count as one weapon type. So you can still have your bec-de-corbin and halberd variations. I guess your infantry would have: one-handed swords, slashing polearms, blunt polearms, shield. The two-hander could be used by an officer later.
The crossbowman was good already I think: sword, shield, crossbow, bolts.
The mounted crossbowman would need to drop the shield or the bolts (so the cavalry has only one bolt) as the horse also counts as a weapontype.
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Re: Instead of 4 weapon types, how about voting?

Post  Nikephoros on Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:47 am

Ok, then.

Does ammo count as a weapon type?

Our ranged, right now, has free crossbow and can have an arquebuse. If the ammo counts as a weapon kind, we must take away the arquebuse. Otherwise, we can keep it (it's costly enough not to be unbalanced, as the bots have xbows).
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Re: Instead of 4 weapon types, how about voting?

Post  Nikephoros on Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:08 am

I communicated the issue to my clan, we are brainstorming about what weapon we should keep and what we should leave.

The discussion will end the 24th of April, after that day i will tell Arch3r what to do.

Excelsior.

P.S.Sorry for the double post.
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Re: Instead of 4 weapon types, how about voting?

Post  Arch3r on Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:26 am

Nikephoros wrote:Ok, then.

Does ammo count as a weapon type?

Our ranged, right now, has free crossbow and can have an arquebuse. If the ammo counts as a weapon kind, we must take away the arquebuse. Otherwise, we can keep it (it's costly enough not to be unbalanced, as the bots have xbows).
This is why I would like voting. The Arquebuse gives your clanfaction style, without unbalancing it. It does, however, count as separate weapon type. I wouldn't mind if the class kept it though.
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Re: Instead of 4 weapon types, how about voting?

Post  Austupaio on Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:41 am

SCGavin brought up a good point about time period and technology clashing.

Seeing as his faction is a bit gunless, and old school, as well as Holy Suno and others; while the Brancaleone, 22nd and myself all have guns, there's a bit of a problem.

I'm trying to say this objectively, not toot my own horn, but my faction's guns are going to be just short of useless. Very inaccurate and slow, like the mostly experimental Spanish Arquebus were.
So I think my crude firearms don't put me that far ahead of Suno or Instiniar.

However, because the Brancaleone are using the weapons from Hunt mod, their guns are high damage, and practically sniper rifles. Personally, and this is obviously up for discussion, I think the AB weapons could do with being a bit 'older', because guns weren't that accurate until the invention of rifling. Sure, use Faradon's models, I'm not complaining about the aesthetics, I just think they need be a bit more inaccurate, a hit should not be assured, as they are now with the AB muskets.

Also, I think guns should just count as a crossbow when it comes to limiting, 'cause let's face it, they are crossbows with a bang, some smoke, higher damage and less accuracy.

Heh, another also. If a certain troop has both crossbows AND firearms, that troop should not get steel bolts. This encourages using bolts with firearms and is just silly. Sure, we can't stop people from using regular Bolt v. Cartridges, but that's just pedantics and doesn't really matter.

Having steel bolts however, encourages it by being higher damage an so on.
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Re: Instead of 4 weapon types, how about voting?

Post  Arch3r on Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:25 am

I agree with the firearm=crossbow part.

I think cartridges should have +10 damage, with the gun dealing lower damage. The gun with lower damage is of course compensated by the higher damage bullets. Higher damage ammo also gives more penetration I believe, which is realistic for guns.
Also CoR is another old-school faction that doesn't use guns. Crossbows would have no problem facing firearms though.
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Re: Instead of 4 weapon types, how about voting?

Post  Austupaio on Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:21 am

That would be cool, but that stills brings up the problem with bolt/cartridge being interchangeable.

So, cartridges deal +10 damage, and let's say that works great for guns and balance.

What's to stop people from taking those +10 cartridges and using them in their crossbows?
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Re: Instead of 4 weapon types, how about voting?

Post  Plazek on Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:55 pm

The fact that X bows are a different class of weapon from guns and so anyone having both types in one unit is crazy as they will have no melee ability.

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Re: Instead of 4 weapon types, how about voting?

Post  Austupaio on Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:11 pm

That's a good point, crossbows should have melee capacity.

A crossbow is a big, heavy, sturdy weapon with a lot of metal in it's construction. There is no reason you couldn't bludgeon someone with it, albeit less effectively than a real weapon.

As for firearms not being crossbows, Plazek, they really are. There's no difference other than the melee function, which is a quick fix.

I'm fine either removing melee for firearms, seeing as they don't even have bayonets anyways, or adding melee for crossbows.
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Re: Instead of 4 weapon types, how about voting?

Post  Plazek on Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:00 pm

I think not.
Just because the gun is modded over the x-bow and they are similar in effect does not make it the same.
If anything the difference between guns and x-bows needs to be increased.

X bows in mele might work but I would worry they would break unless they were the heavier x bows.

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Re: Instead of 4 weapon types, how about voting?

Post  Austupaio on Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:01 am

This may be different in Warband, but in the original M&B, firearms were actually classified as crossbows in the header.

A crossbow and a gun serve the same purpose in more or less the same way. I can't think of one notable difference, that relates to them needing to be separated by troop, myself. So I'm open to hearing other's thoughts on that.
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Re: Instead of 4 weapon types, how about voting?

Post  Arch3r on Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:58 am

In Warband they're, unfortunately, still crossbows. I think that we should just keep cartridges at +2 than, maybe +3. It would probably be possible to check whether both bolts and guns are equipped at the same time and than unequipping one of them, via a trigger. Also Austupaio, you mentioned that you want cartridges/bullets to be used by your crossbows. To shoot lead balls instead of bolts, as it's also historical correct.
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Re: Instead of 4 weapon types, how about voting?

Post  Plazek on Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:02 am

Reasons Guns should come under a different classification from X bows:

They are a different type of weapon
Each other category of weapon has only 1 weapon type
Using a X bow and using a gun requires different skills (though similar)
Guns use firearms proficiency and x bows use x bow proficiency
Getting the verstility of 2 types of weapon for 1 equipment type is not balanced versus all others
Falling under the same in game category because of certain in game mechanical similarities does not make them equivalents.

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Re: Instead of 4 weapon types, how about voting?

Post  Austupaio on Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:17 am

I don't personally agree, but I'm not going to force the issue. I'm fine with whatever you guys compromise. At the end of the day, I have my Militia troops use crossbows while my TII ranged troops use guns so it wouldn't affect me either way.

And yes, Arch3r, I'd like to use the bullets, should I go ahead and model / texture those and include them with my BRF? Not like it's terribly difficult to model a lead ball. Laughing
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Re: Instead of 4 weapon types, how about voting?

Post  Arch3r on Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:40 pm

Ye, sure, do it. Cartridges look like corks at the moment, for whatever reason. They need upgrade! Very Happy
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Re: Instead of 4 weapon types, how about voting?

Post  Nikephoros on Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:40 pm

Well, in all sincerity, i just took the arquebuse i found, assuming it had the same stats as "semiofficial" arquebuses have in most mods, like teatrc.

You can give them the same stats of Austupaio's clan, it's fine for us.
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Re: Instead of 4 weapon types, how about voting?

Post  Plazek on Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:49 pm

Who cares its a beta Smile

Testing is the point.

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Re: Instead of 4 weapon types, how about voting?

Post  Austupaio on Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:12 pm

Nikephoros wrote:Well, in all sincerity, i just took the arquebuse i found, assuming it had the same stats as "semiofficial" arquebuses have in most mods, like teatrc.

You can give them the same stats of Austupaio's clan, it's fine for us.

Alright, we can work on the statistics of the weapons later and keep the current ones for now, as Plazek said, it's just a beta still.

My faction is almost done materials wise, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around the module system to put it all together, while UV mapping and everything else. scratch The only other person in my clan that can help, makes scenes.

I'll see what I can do to make the bullet looks a little bit nicer than just a sphere.
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