2h animations

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2h animations

Post  Plazek on Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:22 pm

According to Arch3r in his invasion mod thread 2h animations are buggy and he needs to fix them. Suspect

I have decided to form the 2h appreciation society for the protection of 2handers!
Before any changes happen to something as integral to warband as the animations for this mod I feel it should be fully and properly discussed. This goes for every weapon and animation but especially ones as cool as 2handers!

I ask specificly:

What is wrong with them?
Is spammability not dealt with by the simple implementation of melee FF?

Really though things as central to the game as weapon animations should not be ninja changed. I feel that issues such as these concerned with such basic game mechanics are some of the most important decisions to be made and so far I have seen no discussion pertaining to them.

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Re: 2h animations

Post  Nikephoros on Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:31 pm

I'm with plazek on this.

It's a very, very, VERY delicate matter. First, we should concentrate on the BfC peculiarities, then we should take care of the "details".

Also, i think they work fine, right now.
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Re: 2h animations

Post  Arch3r on Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:04 am

*speechless* I'm sorry Plazek but wtf? Two-handers were OP and I've made a thread about a while ago why, with video proof. Do you want me to dig it up? I freaking FIXED a bug, and now you're afraid because you're pwning soldiers are completely nerved? That's not true at ALL.
It seems I didn't make the topic myself but posted on one regarding it. I'm currently not able to find it. But really don't whine about me fixing bugs, just because you're afraid that you can't win by exploiting, this post is really idiotic.
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Re: 2h animations

Post  Plazek on Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:30 am

No Arch3r cut the shit.

There is nothing wrong as far as I can tell with the 2h animations in the game.
If it was so buggy and broken as you say then how come the TW devs saw fit to release it after month and months of beta testing, especially consideirng 2h were such a hot topic.

Also playing with the vanilla animations and how they work is by no means exploiting. As if using the 2h animations as they come out from the box is exploiting in any way!

Your the idiot thinking you can chage such basic game mechanics as simple as weapon animations without people objecting.

Oh and CONGRATU-FUCKING-LATIONS about how you manage to make this about "omg plazek you just want it cause it is OP"

AS IF I FUCKING NEED TO BE OP I AM IN CHARGE OF ONE OF THE BIGGEST AND MOST SKILLED CLANS IN THE WHOLE WARBAND WORLD AS IF I GIVE A SHIT ABOUT NEEDING AN OP WEAPON YOU IDIOT I WAS USING 2H SWORDS SINCE EARLY .5XX WHEN THEY WERE SHIT AND NOBODY USED THEM

(caps for emphais not rage because I have explained several similar points when you go OMG you want it for OP and I deny it yet you continue on with the same fucking line again and again)

No

Seriously your really pissing me off, every time I say something you disagree with you say I am saying it because of self interest. How about the fact that CoR does not have 2h weapons in their infantry maybe I shall say, instead of making reasoned arguments that you only made this change to give CoR an advantage over 2h using factions. After all, as you know everyone is a total prick concerned only with self interest and any reason they might write down here is a lie!

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Re: 2h animations

Post  Austupaio on Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:17 am

Cool story, bro.

I have no thoughts on the issue, I just have to say.. are you really pulling the 'oh I have a big clan so you have to respect me' card?
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Re: 2h animations

Post  Arch3r on Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:26 pm

You're the one shitting here, Reveran doesn't have any two-handers because every guy in our clan who is both a good fighter without spamming (fredelios for example) doesn't use two-handers, because they ARE broken. It was such a hot topic because they're broken. One of the reviews that was featured on taleworlds.com said that goal of the game was getting a big weapon as possible and killing loads of enemies, which isn't what I think of this game. Armagan thought that having vulnerability against ranged weapons was fine and compensated for the no recovering time that ONLY exists for two-handed weapons and the massive damage (which is fine by me). No recovery time for only two-handers is a bug to me and very annoying. That you make such a whine thread just because I did some changes regarding it, before you EVEN TRIED the animations doesn't really help your matter. How about you try it before going to whine and getting the OMG I'M ONE OF THE BEST (ye to not seem to arrogant?) on the table.
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Re: 2h animations

Post  CFR on Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:50 pm

Im taking no side but as I see it all things are overpowered if used right, so which ever happens is cool by me but as its Arch3rs mod, I feel its his right to take this as he likes.
An example:
Give me a spear and I will be on a rampage. Its about how you use it and every clan has is preference in weapons, while Cor does not like two-handers, Pi dislikes mounts, how people overcome these will make you stronger as the reason I became good with a spear was to conquer the horse.

But I like mods that make changes, and changing animations is a pretty neat thing.
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Re: 2h animations

Post  Arch3r on Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:22 pm

CoR doesn't dislike two-handers, but just recognizes the fact that something is wrong with them.
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Re: 2h animations

Post  Plazek on Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:31 am

Austupaio wrote:Cool story, bro.

I have no thoughts on the issue, I just have to say.. are you really pulling the 'oh I have a big clan so you have to respect me' card?

Errr no. I pulled the "were pretty damn badass as if I am going to make such a fuss over getting supposedly OP weapons" card. I thought it was pretty obvious, maybe we need something bigger than caps. If your feeling so amazingly smart that you can pull internet memes out your arse at least use your basic comprehension skills.
-----
Changing animations is changing basic gameplay mechanics. The battle for calradia has no place in doing such a thing, especially without consulting the clans interested in playing this game. Especially so when the driving force behind this mod (Arch3r) is in a clan whos troops make ZERO use of 2h weapons (CoR). Is it just me or does this not seem slightly suspect?

You can continue to spout your bullshit about how I want it because it is OP but that is not actually true. I simply think as above, as I stated in my origional post in this thread and as I posted in my 2nd post in this thread and has I have repeated in this post.
As I also mentioned when this came up originally in the invasion thread.

You have no right to change basic gameplay mechanics without consulting the clans taking part in this game.

PS

Arch3r my referance to bullshit is with your dumbfuck arguments. Basicly coming down to ad hominem arguments against me that I only want these things because I am selfish and want OP weapons.

I state repeatedly in this thread and the other thread where we bitch at each other that this is not the case and that my reasons are the ones I give, yet you insist to continue this charade of "discussion" where I suggest things and you make shit up to argue against it.

PPS

That you did not answer the following questions I posed:

"I ask specificly:

What is wrong with them?
Is spammability not dealt with by the simple implementation of melee FF?"

And instead went straight to you "OMG PLAZEK your just want OP shit" suggests to me further that your argument is shit. If you had a thread and evidence videos and proof that they are bugged and overpowered.

SHOW ME LIKE I ASKED!

Dont spout shit. I do not care how many times you say I want it cause they are spammable or I want it because they are OP, just because you say it does not make it so.

I want you to show me. You know like I politely asked in the origonal post.

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Re: 2h animations

Post  Austupaio on Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:20 am

Christ, settle down. The two of you are bickering like a married couple.

I'm going to address your post, Plazek, in a few points here.

Arch3r not having the right to change game mechanics in his mod without consulting the clans.

It most certainly is his right to change the mod he's coding and putting together free of charge for us.
However, it would've been nice if he had said something earlier, maybe a poll or short discussion on the idea.
Finally, I have a dedicated two hander troop in my faction, and I have to say I like the idea. There's a bit of a delay now, the answer to that is aim and predict your enemies movements rather than just attack, attack, attack. I also would like to see less two handers on the field.

Playing Warband these days, everyone out there is using a two handed sword or axe. This is not very realistic, and I'd like to see shields with one handed weapons, and spears more often than the are used now.
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Re: 2h animations

Post  Arch3r on Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:28 am

Plazek wrote:
is in a clan whos troops make ZERO use of 2h weapons (CoR). Is it just me or does this not seem slightly suspect?

"I ask specificly:

What is wrong with them?
Is spammability not dealt with by the simple implementation of melee FF?"
We got a two-handed sword (officer one), that's more than zero already. Also our Tier-3 class (later) will have multiple two-handed swords.

What is wrong with them?
Is spammability not dealt with by the simple implementation of melee FF?"

Melee FF in a 1v1? So no melee FF doesn't help.

Now my point, answer this: Why did you make this thread, before even TRYING?
The change is minimal, the only thing is that when you keep pressing your left mouse button to unleash a rage of attacks, you die easier as the enemy has a bit more time, after blocking your strike, to counter attack, thus disabling the ability to spam.
This is a fail post, my fix only fixes, it doesn't nerf anything or radically overhauls any two-handers. You should have waiting and try before you posted.
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Re: 2h animations

Post  Plazek on Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:50 am

You should have answered my questions in the origional post instead of accusing me of whining being self centred and generally being an arse about it.

Really my request that these things at least be discussed before being implemented was hardly an unreasonable one!

Maybe the change is a good one, maybe it is minimal and does not nerf anything. However how the fuck am I meant to know that if there has been NO DISCUSSION?!

I mean seriously why you even got so up in arms about my initial post in the first place is beyond me I put it extremely civilly, simply requesting we discuss before ninja changes to as I have said, such integral game mechanics. Rolling Eyes

I made the thread because of the principle of the thing you were changing, and my opinion that it should stay the same as it is such a basic mechanic.

PS I did not think this was a dueling mod Arch3r I thoguth it was a massive player and bot battle with cmapaign system mod. If your only reason for why the supposed spammability is bad for the mod is because of dueling, well it is a pretty poor reason, as I said this is NOT a duelling mod, duels will play a very small role.

Furthermore I question your judgement of the overpoweredness of 2h weapons for duels. Axes and other unbalanced weapons have significant disadvantages in any duel type situation. Not only is it harder to feint, and block at the last moment but the size of the weapons telegraphs extremely obviously the attack direction, making manual blocks easy to pull off. That reason combined with the unbalanced tag compounds the problem further.

The telegraphing of attacks applies to 2h swords although the unbalanced tag does not. However this is made up for by the lack of shield smashing and lower damage. A great sword does 42 damage cut, and like 29 piercing or something. This is hardly massive damage! Against heavy armour this will be much lower that maybe even a 1h mace. Also compare it to the 1h Nord axes which are extremely fast, smash shields, can be swung easily in close quarters and do damage in the high 30s!

Personally in a dueling situation you are better off with the shorter and faster weapon that is a 1h. They are harder to block than the obvious 2h they are all balanced and they let you take a shield.

Your analysis of 2h and saying that the only(implied as you mentioned no other disadvantages, a balanced argument as normal Arch3r Rolling Eyes ) disadvantage that they have is being vulnerable to ranged attacks is FALSE.

Armagan thought that having vulnerability against ranged weapons was fine and compensated for the no recovering time that ONLY exists for two-handed weapons and the massive damage (which is fine by me).

As I have explained they have many disadvantages, even in the situation in which you suggested they are best, that of dueling.
----
As for the supposed prevalence of 2h in general play as mentioned by Austupaio that is because the game just came out and their are loads of people that know shit about the game and do not realise that in a large number of cases you can easily win by using a little skill. It is not the weapon you use but how you use it. However when there are a load of idiots thrown together and none know how to play it is obvious that the one with the bigger, higher damage weaopn will win.

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Re: 2h animations

Post  Arch3r on Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:13 pm

Intergral game mechanics? Do I have to ask permission for every little bug I fix? The animation used much less frames than any other weapon animation, while the acutal animation had the most frames as well, therefor this is pretty much a bug.

"A great sword does 42 damage cut, and like 29 piercing or something. This is hardly massive damage!"
How about power strike? That does +x% damage, so this damage get's a lot higher. While 28c swords get 1 more damage if you get a +5% powerstrike bonus, that two-hander gets 2. And that's only power draw, proficiency also gives a +x% damage bonus and so does the STR attribute. It ends up with the sword doing +10 damage because of all that, and the sword +4 or so, making the difference even larger, 52c or 32c?

About your duelling mod argument, how about 1v4? When outnumbered, the spammy weapon has the advantage over slow weapons.
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Re: 2h animations

Post  CFR on Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:15 pm

Can we try not to bitch so much its not good for progress :'(
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Re: 2h animations

Post  Arch3r on Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:18 pm

Indeed. Let's lock it.

Note to plazek: please just try it, instead of asking for your permission it's better to just do it and ask for your opinions while trying. So don't make such threads so early.
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