Yea I spent 20 mins on this post and you lock so it gets posted.

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Yea I spent 20 mins on this post and you lock so it gets posted.

Post  Plazek on Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:47 pm

I just wrote a substantial post. Watsed 20 mins of my life so dont imagine I am not going to post it. Feel free to lock.

My example was 1h axes at damage of high 30s I think the best nord axe does 39 damage?
So, you bias the example in your favour by switching to a lower damage weapon. Nice one, extra pursuasive. However it is not really valid to compare the free sword to the most expensive 2h sword!

Rolling Eyes

Do I have to ask permission for every little bug I fix?

Did I say that? Err NO

Rolling Eyes

Lastly

When outnumbered, the spammy weapon has the advantage over slow weapons.

Your explanation for what is wrong with 2h weapons (and consequentially the reason they are in your opinion bugged) seems to rest solely with spammability.

After all your only answer so far to my question as I quote in your response:

What is wrong with them?
Is spammability not dealt with by the simple implementation of melee FF?"

Melee FF in a 1v1? So no melee FF doesn't help.

Was that, the sole problem (in so far a syou have admitted) is spammability.
Now I propose, bamboo spear, spear, all short sword variants, and rhodok sickles(and any similar weapons) are bugged(relative to the majority of other weapons in the game). Virtue of being spammable, the sole criterion as provided by Arch3r for what is wrong with 2h weapons and why they are bugged. All the weapons listed there are as, if not more spammable than a 2h sword or a greatsword.

Now I am aware that the causes of the spam are different(supoposed animation bug vs weapon speed) but I am not bothered by the causes it is the effects that matter, cause is irrelevant. If 2h spam is a bug that needs to be fixed then logicly all other spam must be as well.

Yea Arch3r, you got a lot of bugs to fix!

In fact if I take a morningstar and use it 1h then ALL THE WEAPONS IN THE GAME ARE BUGGED cause anyone can spam me to death with anything!

So as, provided you can follow the argument, you can now see. The claim that they are bugged because they are spammable is actually fallacious. Spammable is a relative term, no weapon can be spammable naturally, only in comparison with a weapon of slower speed. If you say a wepaon is spammable that is meaningless unless you say what it is spammable in relation to.

Your explanation for why 2h weapons are bugged being solely in terms of spam is not sufficient IMO unless you resolve to remove ALL types of spam from the game.

PS

I nearly forgot.
Rolling Eyes

PPS in respnse to your last post which tried to make it look as if I was demanding permission from you (which would be a total dick move on my part) is not true. I said that these things ought be DISCUSSED. This is very different from me saying you must ask for permission and looks to me more like a dick move on your part, in trying to make me look like an arrogant asshole.

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Re: Yea I spent 20 mins on this post and you lock so it gets posted.

Post  Austupaio on Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:10 pm

Your general demeanour and mode of speech are what make you seem like an arrogant asshole, not anyone's counter arguments.

You make a good point here 'n there, but it's lost under the Rolling Eyes smiley and raging.

Once the new version has the new animations, we'll all give them a thorough testing, and I'll be there along with you to post threads about what's wrong with them, or not wrong with them. For now, I feel the conversation is moot.
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Re: Yea I spent 20 mins on this post and you lock so it gets posted.

Post  Arch3r on Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:53 am

A morningstar is a very viable weapon when used 2h, good reach too (98, even though the model only shows 60)
"Was that, the sole problem (in so far a syou have admitted) is spammability."
Ye sure, read over my arguments a bit more. It's easy to ignore stuff, just to be right eh? I already told that in group combat, it doesn't help much too. It's not that you and your mates all stand in a tight group and slash, hitting eachother. You move around enemies and swing (or spam) when there is no friendly near. Friendly melee FF doesn't help no, not even in group combat.
And yes I have got a lot of bugs to fix/rebalancing (a more suitable word) to do. And stop making idiot posts about it when I for example change the speed from the military sickle from 98 to 97, it's total rubbish, I can rebalance and before you say NO, TRY IT FFS.

"So as, provided you can follow the argument, you can now see. The claim that they are bugged because they are spammable is actually fallacious. Spammable is a relative term, no weapon can be spammable naturally, only in comparison with a weapon of slower speed. If you say a wepaon is spammable that is meaningless unless you say what it is spammable in relation to."
Weapons that are spammable against all weapons except the same (Great sword versus Great sword) and also have very good damage, needs rebalancing. Speed, damage and reach, the two-hander got it all, without recovery time. Which is a bug, and needs fixing. No recovery time is a BUG just face it. Recovery time is realistic, swords don't teleport back to their starting position, when a weapon has no recovery time and it's the only one, it needs fixing.
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